Module 4 - Final Blog Post
Chapter 13 of the Scott text investigates punishment issues. After reading the chapter, I would like you to post your response to the questions presented on Page 235 regarding the two case examples.They are found in the middle of page 235 right before the category called: Punishment Strategies. Thanks, Splichal
Though Both Mrs. Mirizzi’s and Mr. Casey’s perspectives on punishment seem well off the mark, addressing the two teachers’ perspectives on punishment per se seems like a misguided starting point. Just as the Scott text addresses the matters of instruction, reinforcement, and antecedent interventions long before devoting a total of eleven pages to the specific topic of punishment, Mrs. Mirizzi and Mr. Casey would do well to address these three aspects of classroom management before refining their views on punishment.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Mirizzi’s philosophy seems to preclude the use of any of the afore mentioned interventions, but is sounds like the students, neighboring teachers, lunchroom workers, and bus drivers would benefit most immediately from some antecedent interventions aimed at creating a more orderly environment. Some time devoted to classroom routines, clear expectations, and classroom layout would be a start. A systematic way of reinforcing the behaviors that Mrs. Mirizzi (or at least her colleagues) would like to see would be a nice next step. With these interventions in place Mrs. Mirizzi could begin to address her tendency to dismiss rather than respond to the undesirable behaviors exhibited by her students.
Unlike Mrs. Mirizzi, Mr. Casey has not dismissed punishment as a management tool, but he has overlooked a number of important tools that should make punishment much less necessary in his classroom. Rather than using instructional techniques that keep the students engaged, challenged and successful, Mr. Casey assigns mind-numbing bookwork that practically begs the students to seek other forms of stimulus. Additionally, Mr. Casey has overlooked the important antecedent approach of using every opportunity he has to form positive relationships with his students. Instead, Mr. Casey’s default is to bark at the students creating an adversarial relationship and forcing him to opt for coercion before he’s even given cooperation a chance.
Question - Is one right and the other wrong? Or is it possible that both of them have the wrong perspective on punishment?
ReplyDeleteAnswer - No, neither perspectives are accceptable. Mrs. Mirizzi's approach is not teaching the children needed academic or life skill lessons. All they are learning is that they can do whatever they wish with no consequences. Mr. Casey I believe is doing more damage to the children than Mrs. Mirizzi. Mr. Casey is not treating the chidlren with respect and is literally scaring them. He is not a good role model with his yelling and may be hurting target student's self esteem. Mrs. Mirizzi isn't teaching them anything, but is at least not causing added classroom stress and possible future distrust of teachers.
Question-How would you, as a colleague of either Mrs. Mirizzi or Mr. Casey, discuss their divergent and, perhaps, erroneous views on punishment?
Answer- If I as a colleague were to talk to these teachers about their views on punishment, I would first have to get to know them and become a respected, trusted colleague. Mrs. Mirizzi is in her third year, which in my district means tenyor or goodbye. She will probably be more willing to discuss differing views for this reason. alone Mrs. Mirizzi needs to understand that teachers are responsible for teaching the district curriculum. Your job depends on this! Students need and want a daily schedule to follow. A consistent daily schedule will help prevent unwanted behaviors. Students need the comfort of knowing what comes next in their day, especially students with diagnosed ADHD and Autism spectrum disorders. Students also respond better behaviorly when they have assigned seats. I would share my behavior plan which includes many positive disciple techniques and a classroom behavior management plan. I would level with Mrs. Mirizzi about the possible loss of her job and would be available to help as much as she would let me help.
Mr. Casey is going to be a bigger challenge to tackle. If he has been allowed to be a big bully teaher for 27 years, then I am probably not going to have any luck in changing his approach. The best I could probably hope for are conversations during lunch or planning times that might include the following.
Delete1. I might talk about how scared my child was of a sixth grade teacher because they yelled at students. Even though he was not being yelled at, the impact that environment had on him. I would go on to talk about methods I use in my classroom that replace the need to yell; and how well those methods work for me.
2. I would talk about the importance of getting to know your students and how you have to give the students respect in order to get respect. I would ask him to tell me about his favorite teacher and then ask what made that teacher special to him.
3. I would talk about the college class I took on Positive Discipline and ask him to read my Disciple Policy.
3. If I ever witnssed this teacher treating a child with dis-respect, I would go directly to the teacher and talk with them privately about what I viewed.(Most teachers would not be comfortable doing this, but my background prepared me do do this.) I would only go to the administration if the incident I viewed was severe. The administration should know after 27 years what they are dealing with. They may be simply waiting until Mr. Casey retires.
I think it would be really hard as a collegue to confront another colleague unless you had truly developed a relationship with one. I don't like the thought of a principal 'waiting for a retirement' to deal with a situation, althought I know it happens.
DeleteKaren,
DeleteIt is hard to confront a colleague, but is also can help to change working conditions. I have a lot of volunteers in my classroom that I have had to talk to from time to time about various things that are not acceptable in my classroom. I have once talked to a colleage about rumors involving me. I never knew it the rumor was started by her, but my going directly to her helped my work situation and my relationship with her. People will not talk about those who might come directly to them. I also started asking her a lot of work related questions, which she appeared to like. Once a teacher asked me to train her Para for a couple of weeks. The Para was yelling at the students and the teacher was not willing to confront her. I spent time eating lunch with the Para, getting to know her. I also talked to her in private about my expectations of her while in my classroom, which included not raising her voice while in my room. I had no trouble with her, and neither did her assigned teacher, when I sent her back after two weeks. I believe that teachers need to be able to confront/guide others in a positive manner to some degree, in order to be sucessful.
Last year I talked to a father with the Principal and Councelor present, about cussing in front of children and teachers. The father was not mad, just telling me a story. I started the conversation by apologizing for allowing him to cuss while in my room while the children were not present. I told him that I grew up cussing while at home and told him how I had to really watch what I said during my first year of teaching. I asked him to think of the front door of the school as the signal to clean up his language. He accepted my challenge and only cussed again once during a parent converence, and appologied after he did it.
Cindy, you brought up a lot of great points about Mr. Casey. I also beleive he would be the harder one to change for many reasons including the ones you mentioned. I think that Mr. Casey needs to get out of his classroom and observe an effective teacher in action that does not rule with an iron fist. He needs to see that his way is not the only way.
DeleteCindy,
DeleteYou are definitely braver than me when it comes to confronting others. Professionally, I understand the need to bring certain things to the attention of administration. However, I have a hard time dealing with confrontation and many times do not have the right words ready in those types of conversations. I think your previous experience has enabled you to be able to achieve those tasks. I think it is something that I will learn as I come across situations. I enjoyed reading your post!
Carissa
Cindy,
DeleteI have really enjoyed learning from your stories this summer. You always bring a different light to situations. Sometimes it is hard to confront people directly but I think you are right. Many people will not talk about you or spread untrue rumors if you are willing to go directly talk to them. I think if we were all more willing to go talk about situations with people directly, it would lead to a lot more honesty. Thank you!
We have a case of two extremes. Mrs. Mirizzi is going to eventually come to the end of her rope if she has absolutely no structure for behavior in her classroom. Mr. Casey is already an unpopular teacher, due to his philosophy of "bringing the hammer down"; therefore non-effective as a teacher. We have the newer, passionate teacher who is not applying the three guiding principles that serve to direct behavior reduction techniques for fear of invading or diminishing her students creativity. When in reality she is implying to the students that "wrongful behavior" is simply their creativity. This will not serve them well in the realities of life. On the other hand, you have Mr. Casey, the veteran, who seems to be holding on to his teaching position, awaiting retirement. He has set the boundaries in his classroom so high that every student no doubt feels like failure is absolute.
ReplyDeleteBoth teachers need to first and foremost set the expectations for classroom behavior. Since the age difference is so great, each teacher needs to make sure their expectations are clear and precise. First infractions should consist of speaking to the student and finding out what it is about the expectations that are not clear. Second, are they instructing in such a way that allows the student to reach his/her full potential? Do they have students who are needing extra help? If the teachers do not "know" their students and are not striving to meet their needs, you automatically are creating a situation that will be negative when it comes to behavior. Third, are the behavior reduction techniques enabling the student to obtain what they wanted all along, or are they addressing the behavior with such functions that causes the student to see that his/her inappropriate behavior is not leading to anything positive.
For instance, third grade student is a "social bug", student is repeatedly getting up out of his seat to talk to a friend. He knows that the classroom expectations are "raise your hand and obtain permission to get up during classroom instruction." Mrs. Mirizzi has already talked with him about his behavior and he clearly stated that he knew what he was doing was not acceptable. Now, Mrs. Mirizzi needs to focus on removing the stimuli that may be enticing the student to get up. So, she places his desk in a nearby proximity to her desk, facing the wall. Now, student is removed from other students and will need to choose whether he likes the separation or if he wants to be back amongst his peers. If he misses sitting with the students, he will choose to stop getting up out of his seat during inappropriate times.
Mr. Casey needs to take a fresh look at why he is teaching. He then needs to make certain he has made his expectations of classroom behavior clear and precise. Following the three guiding principles, if a student is being disrespectful, Mr. Casey needs to talk to the student and see if he can understand what is going on in the classroom or out of the classroom to cause the student to feel negative. If the behavior does not change, Mr. Casey then needs to have the student meet with himself and the counselor or principal (and parents if they are available). If the situation is not take care of, the student then needs to take his/her lunch in the principals office or other appropriate area. I am sure there are many other options for pursuing better choices in upper grades. Honestly, I have worked in elementary for 10 years and have simply heard of warning, detention, and suspension as the methods of dealing with inappropriate behavior. I think in the upper grades you would need some creative measures to find out what is causing the behavior.
I agree that as a teacher you need to find out what is motivating the bevavior, but I had a case this past year when I called a parent and the parents responded with "I just don't know what to do with him." . . . YIKES!
DeleteThe parents that say they don't know what to do, KNOW EXACTLY WHAT TO DO! Some parents are just to lazy to be consistent.
DeleteAlthough both Mrs. Mirizzi and Mr. Casey have the potential to be excellent teachers, they are not living up to their full potential.
ReplyDeleteIn Mrs. Mirizzi's case, she is completely lacking in any sort of organization or structure. She is more concerned with wanting to be her student's friends than their leader and example. She would definitely benefit from introducing structure and rules into her classroom, and explaining in great detail what was going on to the students, especially since the students are now used to her classroom being a certain way. Growing up, I had a couple teachers who did have a "quiet area" that had bean bags and book shelves, but it was meant for only reading and relaxing. When we would do homework and group work, it was to be done at our desks. There was always organization and structure to our day, and even to our locations in the classroom as well. Although creativity is important, it should be addressed in a healthy way that encourages students to also be structured and organized in their daily activities.
Mr. Casey on the other hand is too firm. I can definitely relate to this type of teacher--I had plenty of them through my schooling days. Teachers that are more interested in making sure the day goes by faster without having to actually teach. This is no way for a student to learn. In my opinion, any subject requires active participation. Without it, students get bored with the material, and will more than likely not get very much out of the class. Introducing creative ways of learning would definitely spruce up Mr. Casey's agenda, and would allow the students to be more interested in the content of the class. There would be less students skipping, and everyone would be happier.
Question 1: Is one right and the other wrong?
ReplyDeleteWithout being judgemental, I don't think I can answer that question. Obviously, if their individual methods have worked for both individuals at some point in time, then they are "right;" but then again, if they are causing issues around the school, then obviously, they are 'wrong.' I think a better question to each of the teachers might be 'how effective are the methods you are using for discipline?'
Question 2: Is it possible that both of them have the wrong perspective on punishment? Again, I think it isn't really a question of perspective, but rather of effectiveness. I believe that both Mrs. Mirizzi and Mr. Casey believe strongly in their methods, and if asked would state an accurate account of their perspective. However, I think that, as many of us, we are set in our ways. I once heard it takes 21 days of repeating an action to form a habit. If both teachers are well into the year, the habits are already formed and the perspective of each teacher is succint.
Question 3: How would you as a colleague discuss their divergent and, perhaps erroneous views on punishment?
Several things have to be considered: how well do you know the person you are talking to, does the person trust and value your opinion, how long has the person been practicing his/her methods, etc. So, my first thought is that I would not confront either . . . UNTIL you could develop a rapport with them. I think we all know teachers like either one of these scenarios . . . didn't we have to write about four different kinds of teachers? Probably the best situation is to approach it as a group setting without pointing fingers or naming names. Have a 'planned' lunch room discussion, talk to the principal about adding it as an inservice small group discussion, suggest in a nont-threatening environment the importance of keeping kids in class, yet following rules as being a pre-cursor to a quality education for ALL involved, etc.
Karen,
DeleteI agree with your statement that talking to someone about something so sensitive requires trust between both of you and that they would value your input. If I am a first year teacher in these situations, I would never feel as if I could approach them about this. However, if I was an established and well-respected teacher in the district, I would feel more comfortable with it. Also, I really like your idea and maybe having it added in as a inservice discussion, so it doesn't look like they are singled out. Maybe you could ask each person to share their current discipline strategy. Would be interesting to hear what these two have to say!! :)
Carissa
Mrs. Mirizzi allows the children to walk all over her and it seems as though she wants to be their friend more than their teacher and role model. She is only hindering the children’s abilities to learn discipline and respect for themselves and others around them. Children need a stable environment, where they have consistency in their daily routine and they need discipline, in order to learn from their mistakes and make wiser choices the next time. Children should not be physically punished, but they need to understand that following the rules is a part of life. If she is allowing them to do whatever they want, while they are at school, imagine how the parents are feeling, when the child no longer listens to them at home.
ReplyDeleteMr. Casey is on the correct path with punishment, but he could adjust his volume, when directing his voice towards his students. Kids, whether two or twelve, do not want to be yelled at. They want to know that they are safe, but that they are expected to perform at an acceptable level of maturity. Children need a routine, which needs to be followed closely each day, but they also need some kind of relaxing and less strict environment at times. Mr. Casey could find a more exciting approach to teaching, instead of having the children read the chapter out loud and answer the questions silently.
Kali,
DeleteI completely agree with you in your opinion of both teachers. Mrs. Mirizzi does let her students walk all over her, and just like you said, they're not learning as much as they could, and they are definitely not learning from the teacher's actions in the classroom. Children need a good, sturdy routine, and discipline from a very young age. Without it, children do not learn the correct way and may develop unhealthy habits throughout their schooling, and later on in life. In my opinion, teachers and parents should be on the same page when it comes to discipline and how to teach students because like you said, no parent wants a child who no longer listens to them because of something their teacher taught them at school.
I see issues, BIG issues with both of these teachers. Mrs. Mirizzi is living on another planet if she thinks she is preparing her students to be college and career ready. We live in a world with rules and guidlines. We all must follow the rules the sooner we learn how to live within the rules of our country the higher chance we have of staying out of the institutions our government has set up if we don't follow the rules: Prison!
ReplyDeleteAs for Mr. Casey, this is the extreme in the opposite direction. If I had to side with one teacher it would be with Mr. Casey. Structure is good and needed in every classroom but it sounds like Mr. Casey has put more importance on the schedule of his classroom than on the students learning the material. Unfortunately, the students are not gaining from this environment either because they are laughing at him and not attending class.
I would say there is a middle ground and this is where effective teaching comes in play. The balance of punishment and reinforcing rules and guidelines is a fine line. Each teacher has to find their "sweet spot." Most of the time I think takes years and years of practice. I know that for me I have see what does not work more times that I have figured out what does work but after reading the Scott textbook and other textsbooks from classes at FHSU I have found their punishment strategies must be pre-thought out and intentionally implemented in a classroom. This subject is one that will eat a teacher alive if they do not think about it before the first day of school.
I do think that the principle of Mr. Casey has a bigger problem with him than of Mrs. Mirizzi because he seems like he has been ruling as a bully and this type of personality is harder to break than a more passive personality like Mrs. Mirizzi. Yes, they both need a wake up call.
DeleteI agree, Jena, that likely Mrs. Mirizzi is likely still more pliable than Mr. Casey. Though she has some pretty fantastical notions, she does seem to still be thinking and trying. I get the sense that Mr. Casey gave up years ago.
DeleteMrs. Mirizzi has the right idea to have her students explore their environment. And making her classroom have a comfortable feel so that the students can relax and feel at home. But at the same time she doesn't want her class to take advance of her as being known as the lay back teacher that you can get away with anything. When it comes to misbehaving the teacher needs to have some control in their classroom. The teacher shouldn't have to yell at her students but they should have a way to keeping their class in order. She shouldn't ignore the bad reports coming from other teachers and bus drivers. As a teacher it is her responsibility to make sure that her students are learning and acting respectfully. If this still continues the teacher needs to send a note home to their parents and let them know what is going on and that a parent/teacher/student conference needs to be taken place.
ReplyDeleteMr. Casey needs to loosen the tension in his classroom. When his students are always skipping his class; this should be a sign that he needs to change something so that his class will want to show up and learn. Yelling at your class doesn't really help. It only makes the student even more upset and cause them to act up even more. He needs to change this tone in voice to make sure that the students know he is in charge and that there will be consequences if they misbehave. As for the student that laughed at Mr. Casey for calling his parents, he should have been escorted to the office and his parents should have been called as well as the principle and the school counselor. The problem may be that his parents just don't care about his schooling so therefor this student laughed because he knew his parents wouldn't do anything. This problem may be more serious then what we see on the surface.
I agree with your idea for the student in Mr. Casey's room. His laughing at Mr. Casey's threat was a huge give away in showing what his life outside of school is. Those signs and non-verbal comments should be major pieces to the puzzle that each student is. In learning to discipline correctly, using student "tells" is a necessary step in eliminating misbehavior. Knowing what a student wants and doesn't want allows the teacher an inside look so that he can teach a student to be aware of his triggers in misbehavior and correct them.
DeleteAs far as Mrs. Mirizzi's students go, I would not like to see those same students in a few years when they enter Mr. Casey's room. Her lack of compassion and training clashes so much with his domineering style that those students will be so confused and disheartened. She is setting them up as weak students ready for nothing and he is going to knock them down. Where is the learning?
In the examples given, I don't think that either one of them has the right idea in having a disciplined classroom. The key error is that neither one is actually in tune with their students needs. Mrs. Mirizzi is not connected with her students because she is unaware of who they really are and what talents they have that she can inspire them in. The "live and let live" approach doesn't work for classrooms, and it is often a cop-out/lazy way out of leadership. When I was a foreign exchange student in Lithuania, my classroom's homeroom teacher told me on my first day, "You can do anything you want here." At first, I was shocked and was glad for her sake that I was unwilling to take full advantage of her offer. As time went on, I realized that what she meant was, "I gave you free reign so that I wouldn't have to deal with you." And so she didn't deal with me, and I got to know her very not much. It didn't help that she was a xenophobe, as my friend Karolis told me later. Back to Mrs. Mirizzi. She was in a poor position to see growth and improvement from her students since she never engaged them directly enough to teach them self-discipline, which begins with teacher training and teacher-led discipline. She set her children up to fail at achievement.
ReplyDeleteMr. Casey is similarly faulted because he too is not leading his class. There don't seem to be any procedures in the room, just a lock-down on anyone who breaks unknown rules. His students are unmotivated because they see no value in the meaningless repetition of uninspired class time. He doesn't engage them, so they have no reason to try. The student who laughed when Mr. Casey told him that he would contact his parents might very well receive the same insincere threats at home.
Mrs. Mirizzi has not intervened at all, so she cannot fulfill the first principle. Mr. Casey is overly intense. There is no build in his interventions and, subsequently, no build in his respect level from the students. Neither offers alternative behaviors to the current misbehaviors. Mrs. Mirizzi's students are unopposed, so they are not taught behavior at all. Mr. Casey's students are not praised for correct behaviors. There is no satisfaction offered for doing the right thing. As far as functional considerations, having no consequences/punishments in Mrs. Mirizzi's room has led to increased negative behaviors that affect other people in their jobs. As it stands, her students may be quite disfunctional. Mr. Casey has not considered the effects of his punishment system. He could have a discipline system if he took the time to learn about these "different kind of kids" and guided them according to their needs. Students are not bothering to show up or are ignoring him because he is offering them very little to get attached to.
In my opinion there is a problem with both teachers approach to classroom management and punishment. I believe there is very little learning actually taking place in either classroom. That is a serious problem. Mrs. Mirizzi is too focused on being her students friends. I am not sure if she even realizes that the way she is running her classroom could end up making her loose her job. Mr. Casey's teaching approach is completely opposite of Mrs. Mirizzi. He appears to want nothing to do with his students. That is why he is so strict and yells at them because he thinks it will control them, when actually it is having the opposite affect on his students.
ReplyDeleteI think it would be a tricky situation to discuss these issues with Mrs. Mirizzi or Mr. Casey. I think it would be easier to have a one on one talk with Mrs. Mirizzi. I would try to explain to her that allowing her students so much freedom is not really benefiting her students. Allowing children to express themselves or ignoring their misbehavior's is not teaching them the required curriculum, nor is it teaching them responsibility or respect.
I think with Mr. Casey it would be difficult for me to talk to him about how I feel he needs to change his teaching practices. Obviously, he has been a teacher for 27 years and is probably set in his ways. He probably wouldn't appreciate a new teacher telling him what to do. I think the best approach for this situation would be to address the issues of students skipping class, disrespect for teachers, and teachers having no respect for students at a staff meeting or in-service.
After reading this chapter on punishment, or as the author refers to it "behavior reduction technique" it is obvious that neither of these teachers are making the right decisions on classroom management.
ReplyDeleteIn one extreme, you have Mrs. Mirizzi, who seems to think that all types of punishment and organized procedures are old fashioned and militaristic. She is not helping the students become prepared for what their future educational careers will be like, let alone what the real world will be like. While I agree with her perception that children should be free to express themselves, I feel that she needs to establish some boundaries. I think it is hard for the students to understand that although they can act one way in her classroom, they must follow the rules of other teachers and adults outside of the classroom. For this particular teacher, I think she needs to set up some guidelines and rules that coincide nicely with school wide policies and rules so that there is some consistency for the students to rely on.
That brings me to Mr. Casey. We have most likely all encountered a teacher like Mr. Casey at some point in our academic careers, who tries to frighten you into being perfect in the classroom. This approach to behavior management is not any better than Mrs. Mirizzi. In fact, I feel that his approach could have a worse affect on the students, as he could lead them to more outrageous behavior or he could turn them away from all teachers and higher education. Mr. Casey needs to find a way to possibly try some non-verbal cues with the students that are less threatening and less distracting to their peers. He also needs some sort of discipline policy in affect that he is consistent with so that the poor behavior will decrease.
With Mrs. Mirizzi, I think I would approach her and ask what her discipline policy is in her classroom. I would further explain that I have noticed many of her students being reprimanded outside of her classroom and it is setting a poor example for other students. While as hoping not to offend her, I would share my discipline policy with her to see if she could see that fitting in to her classroom routine.
With Mr. Casey, I think I would approach him and mention that I share some of the same students as him and that they have expressed some fear of him. I might mention that I am worried that they will act out further or turn their backs on education completely. I think Mr. Casey would be very easily offended, so I don't think I would push too hard with him.
I thing both teachers are right and both are wrong. As everyone else has already expressed. I do believe approaching either of these teachers would be more difficult than just getting to know them. Sometime in becoming a friend we tend to sympathize instead of offer constructive answers. I think you have to look at their dispositions. Is the way they are behaving in the classroom their personalities or is it survival? Maybe they would both accept answers to better classroom discipline. I liked the approach of a builing wide approach mentioned in an earlier post. Possibly other teachers are having issues also. We have already discussed the importance of the entire building being on the same page with regards to discipline.
ReplyDeleteWith all the new requirements for adminstration to evaluate faculty I can't believe the principal hasn't already taken action with both teachers. Our principal makes unannounced classroom visits on a continual basis to make observations. Then again I work for an amazing adminstrator!
I think a strong building aide could benifit Mrs. Mirizzi in the interm of helping her develop discipline skills. Mr. Casey is probably a nice guy outside the classroom. I think maybe some team teaching experiences my help him to settle into a more relaxed approach to discipline.
Right on, the principle should be seeing the red flags as we do when we read these examples. I think I may have a different view on unannounced visits when I have my own classroom but as a para and mother of three boys I love that my principle pops in at random times on each teacher. I think it just keeps everyone on the up and up. I see no problems with this practice as long as there is constructive feedback when unannounced visits do occur.
DeleteI like the fact our principal comes into the classrooms during different times of the week, month, or day. I think it allows for more interaction between faculty, staff, and students. It makes her accessible and personable to everyone. Would Mr Casey be yelling if there was the possibility of a drop by? How about the students misbehaving in Mrs. Mirizzi's class? Would they be a little more self disciplined if the principal had caught one of them misbehaving? Just a thought.
ReplyDeleteNeither of these teachers is right! They are like from one extreme to the next. One apparently has no rules and isn’t interested in maintaining order and the other is like a drill sergeant. Both of these teachers could benefit from some district wide discipline training (we have such training about every two years in the district where I work). As a coworker, I would visit with each teacher about certain behaviors I have observed by their students and how it is affecting them as teachers and how it is affecting other students and the school atmosphere as well. Proper discipline should not be a power struggle or an overall dominance of behavior. To effectively change behavior, desired behavior should be modeled. Positive reinforcement of desirable behavior can have a positive effect on changing undesirable behaviors. I have had the opportunity to visit with teachers I work with about how to effectively deal with certain behaviors. One teacher has a hard time with classroom management an really lets the kids get to her so she ends up having a melt-down. At lunch one day I politely told her what I had observed concerning how students were feeding off of her frustrations. She asked me to make note of her actions and reactions about certain behaviors in order for me to help her realize what her triggers where and how she could avoid letting students behaviors occur. It was a really good way for her to see where she needed improvement and I was happy to be able to help her. Not all teachers are willing to do this and tend to just throw their hands up in the air and blame the students. I have a unique perspective when I am in a classroom because of my para position so it is easy for me to help teachers deal with behaviors and offer suggestions. I would most certainly offer the same support to the teachers in the cases mentioned in the text. My approach with them would be much the same as it was with my coworker. It is important to not make the teacher feel like they are totally wrong and that I am totally right; but offer support and suggestions with the attitude of working together to accomplish a common goal.
ReplyDeleteAs most have stated, both these behaviors on how to deal with the students behaviors are wrong. Of course students need structure, but if they want to join the military to have someone breathing down their neck, they will. Mirizzi has no clue! And Casey has a stick somewhere. I have worked with the teachers more like Casey than Mirizzi. I have never seen a teacher "laugh away" disciplining students. Yes there have been teachers that have gone a little overboard like Casey. Both teachers need another lesson in classroom management. The differential reinforcement seems like it would work more for Mirizzi than Casey perhaps. Maybe both teachers should tape themselves during a day and watch for their strengths and weaknesses. Knowing what you do or don't do is easier to correct.
ReplyDeleteI agree that both teachers should have another lesson in classroom management. You would think that the Principal would do random sit ins in the classroom to see how the teacher reacts in certain situations and they can also see what the teacher needs to improve on or phrased on. From my experience as a para, the Principal in that school was always checking on the teachers. This benefited them because they were being watched and notes were taken on how they did. Later on the teacher and Principal would have a meeting about it. The Principal also did this with the paras as well.
DeleteI like the idea of taping themselves but I think it would have to be done by the principal because both teachers seem to think the way they do things is correct
DeleteJust as many of you have stated above, I feel that both teachers' methods of classroom management are wrong. I have worked with and had as a student both types of teachers. In my experience, teachers like Mr. Casey tend to have little trust or student/teacher relationships. This leaves negative memories for students and can even change the way they feel about school overall. If they dread going to a teacher's class everyday, they are not relaxed and able to be themselves at school. A student that is not comfortable in their environment is more likely to pay less attention and retain less knowledge. On the other hand, a student that feels too comfortable in their environment forgets the purpose of being at school. We see this in Mrs. Mirizzi's class. The students do not feel as though Mrs. Mirizzi is an authoritative figure and which encourages them to do as they please. I have never worked with a teacher that simply ignored a students behavior because of their beliefs. However, I have worked with teachers that ignored bad behavior because they did not know how to handle it.
ReplyDeleteIn both cases, I feel that further instruction should be addressed by administration. As a colleague, I feel I might be able to address my concerns with the other teacher personally. While I usually like to handle situations in the best and most discreet way possible, both situations seem to be extreme. This would lead me to take my concerns to the administrators. As Gloria stated above, the schools I have worked in have been proactive in keeping their teachers growing. What I have found though, is that this is only with the first year or young teachers. This would mean that the methods of Mrs. Mirizzi would be addressed while those of Mr. Casey would be left alone until he retired. Hopefully, Mr. Casey would be able to find a connection with his students that would help change the way he feels about teaching. As a teacher, making sure your students know you are an authoritative figure while still being able to establish a sense of trust will help discourage misbehavior. But just like being a parent, you can't ignore bad behavior and expect it to go away on it's on!
I agree with what has been stated by most both teachers are wrong in how they discipline. I am amazed by the lack of confrontation on the part of the administration. The school in which I work has monthly faculty meetings and if someone is irritated it comes out at those meetings. We also have monthly random check-ins by the princapal, this is where he stops and records what we are doing and what is going on in the classroom and you never know if it is your turn to be review or not.
ReplyDeleteI feel that Casey needs to retire he seems to not want to make those necessary relationship connections that need to be made. Yes kids have changed but so have the home lives of students we teach, the things they have to deal with and the expectations of the students now are different from then. He seems to want kids that are seen and not heard that doesn't happen anymore.
My own children would never survive in Mrs. Mirizzi's class there is no structure and two out of my three kids would fall apart with out a regular routine. I have to wonder about students like this in a classroom where there seems to be no rules or boundaries. The bullying that must happen in this classroom has to be out of control.
I think the best response to student misconduct would be somewhere in the middle of Mrs. Mirizzi and Mr. Casey. Each teacher has a very different approach to punishment, Mrs. Mirizzi does not seem to have an sense of punishment, while Mr. Casey uses the most severe forms. I do not think that either teacher has the right perspective on punishment. Mrs. Mirizzi lets her students to anything they want because she sees it as a way for them to express creativity. What she does not do is give the students a guide to function that creativity. I do not see how the students could learn anything in that environment because there is no routine or direction. She is missing the third principle of behavior reduction techniques, functional consideration.
ReplyDeleteMr. Casey, on the other hand is very strict and “old school” in the punishments that he uses. He reminds me of a teacher I had in middle school. There is no room for creativity in his class, which also reduces learning. He does not seem like a person who is open to change, which is not going to help students today because things have changed drastically from how education used to be. He is trying to do everything the way he thinks it should be rather than looking for the best methods to increase student learning.